Improving Pillar Mountains: A can of worms?

Today we added the part of Pillar Mountains that I finished improving to the game. As we ran around next to the walls, a bunch of questions started to pop up, actually filling us with doubt and dread! D:

Is this really better?
While all of us agree that the new mountains matches the rest of the game better, adding them to the game means we have to do a lot of additional work. Not only should these walls appear in every part of the Pillar Mountains, including the lower parts where you face the Black Ferrets for the first time, they're also part of Startington and similar walls are present in every cave - including the three areas that make up Mt:Bloom and its two outside entrances.

So in total, 10 whole maps that we can think of currently, plus every small cave!

On top of that, once we improve the walls, other things need to be improved as well. As you can see in the screenshot above, the bigger rocks on the playing field look a bit off next to the walls now - at the very least, they need to get their brightness/contrast adjusted to match the bright new mountain, but they should probably be repainted a bit as well. The bridges between pillars also need to be reworked, as do the houses and ideally the interior of Startington. Once you improve one thing, other old things will simply look too out of place next to them.

And so this would obviously take a ton of time to finish. And technically, I do have that time. I'm way ahead of Teddy and Fred, and I'm confident I could finish most, if not all, of this before the Steam Early Access release. But when you're about to make a huge decision like this, you're bound to be filled with doubt.

Are the new walls even better in the first place? If we could all, honestly, answer that question with a clear 'yes', then I wouldn't be writing this post right now. I'd be working on finishing more walls. But we're honestly not sure.

Let's take a look at a smaller part of the Before-and-After screens from yesterday:


Now, while the actual rendering of the new wall looks better in our opinion, it also draws your attention much more. The old one feels really anonymous as you play, and it's good in the sense that you get to focus on the actual playing field. So maybe the new walls are too distracting? Maybe remaking them isn't gonna add enough of an improvement in comparison to the workload that it'd be worth it? Maybe it'll actually be worse in the end?

We have thought of ways to solve these worries, of course. Ideas such as making the walls darker, adding vines and moss to them, having the walls consist of larger (and/or smaller) stones... As we proceed, I'll probably try some of those suggestions out and see if we can reach a point where we all agree that this is 100%, definitely, without a doubt better than the old ones.

In the end, we want the game to be as good as it can be, both visually and when it comes down to gameplay. Not knowing which path would make the better game really sucks, but that too is something you have to face every once in a while (if not all the time) as a gamedev!

What do you guys think? Is it worth getting into this, or should we simply quit this before we waste too much time? Would these changed even make the area better, in your opinion, or do you prefer the old version? 
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9 comments:

  1. Ok, I don't think that the new walls look better than the old ones. I've played the game for a long while so I might be biased but I really think that the colors are what's making my choice so easy. The new walls look so bright that they seem interesting. If they had a much darker color I think they would be less noticeable and the problem wouldn't be that big. Comparing the two is really hard because they are so different. One is looking like a flush wall made out of solid rock and the other looks like it's made up of many small rocks. I prefer if the mountain looks like it's made out of one giant piece of stone instead of the many small rocks. IMO it doesn't look like a mountain with the new style, it looks like a hill mad out of many small rocks. I would rather have a pretty boring and straight wall with the surface looking rough rather than having a wall made out of small building blocks/stones.

    TLDR; Keep the dark color and have a more flat surface for the walls to make them seem like they're made out of solid rock instead of having many small rocks to build up the mountain.

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  2. I went into Arcade Mode and looked at one of the pillar areas, then tried to imagine it in the current style.

    It... honestly would look like a giant pillar of pebbles. Currently it has jagged stone and roughness everywhere, lots of detail while looking uniform. It looks like an actual, giant slab of rock.

    My honest opinion? Put a pin in this and revisit it further down the line, right now the current stone works. The pebble look wouldn't do the sharp, curving stone look justice. I tried to find a real life picture of a pebble-life cliff or mountainside as a reference and couldn't, so... I dunno what to say about it, really.

    I honestly never saw a problem with the current design.

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    Replies
    1. https://agringoslifeincusco.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/wiracochan-1.jpg
      Is this what you mean? At least this is what I was talking about in my post.

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  3. Maybe quick-patch the new look of the area for the players to see? It's easier to tell which one is better from in-game than from images.

    As for the new look, I liked the old one. I didn't see it's style doesn' t fit, but I'm not a good person when it comes to styles ;p. But if new fits style better and old one fits area better, maybe mix them both somehow? Also, if quick-patch would gonna happen, remake another area into that style, so players would choose (give feedback) from 3 styles.

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  4. As I have said in the old posts, The stones as they are now make the whole mountain look like its "built". Or as someone else wrote, makes the mountain look like a big heap of small stones instead of a big chunk of rock that creates a mountain.
    I see the diffrence in the styles between the old rocks and how the game is now but right now I rather have the old rocks then these new ones, the new ones does not fit the area according to me.
    I would much rather see more jagged rock where each visable rocks size is bigger.
    If the decision is between keeping the old ones or going for tonnes of extra work to get the whole area done with these rocks? I'd say keep the old ones, they actually make me feel like I'm on a mountain.

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  5. Gah. It ate my comment >.>

    The shorthand version of what I said then was: I dont really like the new design. I prefer the old rock walls because they feel more dark and natural, and I honestly didnt even notice that it looked 'older or outdated'.

    Maybe you can use the new rock design somewhere else, like in a different area or for something else?

    Disclaimer- I am not game dev. Just an average player.

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  6. I agree with the others. The new style doesn't make as much sense, and in your previous post, the really big sections of the new style don't look very good to me -- it's cluttered and busy. If you want to change the style to a more simplistic/less textured one, I'd suggest finding a way to make it work with big slabs of stone instead of building the cliffs out of a bunch of smaller rocks.

    Also, I agree with the idea that the new rocks "pop" too much and should be darker.

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  7. I agree with the others. The new style doesn't make as much sense, and in your previous post, the really big sections of the new style don't look very good to me -- it's cluttered and busy. If you want to change the style to a more simplistic/less textured one, I'd suggest finding a way to make it work with big slabs of stone instead of building the cliffs out of a bunch of smaller rocks.

    Also, I agree with the idea that the new rocks "pop" too much and should be darker.

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  8. This may be a little late, but my initial reaction was just that: the walls are too bright. Try to see what they'd look like when they're darker.

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